From: Bruce Nardoci Subject: Re: Foosball Poem Date: 17 Mar 1998 00:00:00 GMT Message-ID: <6emrbs$brc@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <6earor$1v3$1@ns3.umkc.edu> <19980316054600.AAA00133@ladder03.news.aol.com> <6ekb26$9r5@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net> <6em5qi$fs8$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Reply-To: footsball@worldnet.att.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services Newsgroups: rec.sport.table-soccer David_Radack@Sabre.com wrote: > > In article <6ekb26$9r5@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>, > footsball@worldnet.att.net wrote: > > > > The snake/rollover shot originated in North Carolina (it's original name > > was the "wrist rocket"). > > > > Of course we always claimed John Smith from Houston was the first American to > shoot it... Any one else want to claim responsibility for the shot. And we > called it a fore-arm toe around here before it became popular... > > -david > > -----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==----- > http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading To back up the claim that the rollover shot was invented in NC, the following is an excerpt from a message about the shot that Charles Mackintosh posted to this newsgroup about a year ago (courtesy of Deja News), which coincidentally mentions David Radack and John Smith: "...it was Scott Haltom of Thomasville NC in 1985 that invented, developed as a pro style offense, and TOOK IT ON TOUR FIRST!!! Few know that the origionator (Scott Haltom, Thomasville NC) of the rollover began with the handle on his forearm halfway between the wrist and elbow. The handle ended up in his palm after execution of the shot without illegally spinning the man. The tour debut was in Pasadena TX in January 1987 at the "World's 2, continuation" tournament held at Dave C's "Tornado Shelter. Eleven of us went to that tournament from NC. The first time Scott shot the rocket all hell broke loose. You see, I was the tour "head official" at the time and being from NC like Scott put me on the hot seat, especially with Dave and the established pros who had (GET THIS) NEVER SEEN THE SHOT! After much arguement THE RULES PREVAILED not opinion, and the shot was deemed legal. Scott went on to finish 5th in Expert singles w/ the rocket. By the end of the tourney EVERYONE WAS TRYING TO DO IT. The evolution of the shot on tour I have traced as follows. John Smith saw Scott shooting the shot, began to practicing it and used it at the 2nd split (Tornado/dynamo) World Championships (1987) in dynamo events so he would not affect his pull shot on Tornado events. He referred to it as a "monkey shot", When Rickey Benitez (Fla pro) saw it for the first time he called it a "Julio wrist pin". Oh there were challenges to the shot's legality when John displayed it at World's also. Again, THE RULES PREVAILED. From there the dynamo players seemed particularly interested in the 'rocket since it made the transition easier to Tornado for them. In the ensuing years the 'rockets growth was primarily within the those transitional (other tables) players. No wonder Northeast, California, and NC players are probably the three largest concentration of 'rocket shooters percentage wise compared to other shots. Why, it all started in NC, then taken by dynamo players to the fertile grounds of players looking to compete on the "newly" established standard of play; the Tornado table. It is not surprising to me that the major gripes about the 'rocket come from those whose game is most threatened by it, namely the old pros and any they can convince. But don't blame them, since they are territorial, and like anyone else do not want to give up the position they have worked hard to achieve, to some cocky punk or cool dude with a brush pass and a WRISTROCKET! By the way, the term "snake" origionated in New York. So many players in the Northeast played and toured in those early years with it, that the term "snake" became the most popular name for the WRISTROCKET. These are the facts, there are witnesses. My thanks to Bruce and David R. for their posts that offer printed independent confirmation to these facts. MORON HATERS UNITE AGAINST FALSE PROPAGANDA! Promotingly yours, (15 years and counting) Mr. Fooz" From: Bruce Nardoci Subject: Re: Snake shot ? Date: 21 Jan 1999 00:00:00 GMT Message-ID: <36A7B617.4D2AF561@worldnet.att.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <77t7k1$cv5$1@quince.news.easynet.net> <19990119083813.28894.00000607@ng19.aol.com> <36A4D60E.163B@nr.infi.net> <36A67B2E.9BF33AC3@worldnet.att.net> <36A78258.172C@nr.infi.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services Mime-Version: 1.0 Reply-To: footsball@worldnet.att.net Newsgroups: rec.sport.table-soccer Mackintosh Games wrote: > > Bruce Nardoci wrote: > > > > Mackintosh Games wrote: > > > > > > >Dave Ziemann wrote:> > > > > > >As we're on this subject could somebody please add to this thread how the > > > >names "snake" and "monkey" became current ("rollover" is obvious)?> > > > > (clipped) > > > There are also reasons behind the naming of it as the "snake" (your arm is coiled around the handle like a snake when you shoot it); and "monkey" shots (it's so easy to do, even a monkey could do it; and also you stand sort of like a monkey pose when shooting it). Of course, the reasoning behind rollover is obvious. > > > If I remember correctly, John Smith of Houston coined the "monkey" term > > > when he used the shot at the Dynamo/Tornado world's (in dynamo events) > > > in 1987. He disdainfully called it a "monkey shot" referring to the > > > ease of learning and shooting it. "Snake" came out of the northeast as a > > > descriptive term in 88-89. "Rollover" is a 90's term, origionating on > > > the west coast as Terry began his rise to prominence. "Julio wrist pin" > > > is another name that did not stick, coined by Florida legend Ricky > > > Benetiz in 1987. In NC it is still called "the rocket", a shortened > > > version of the origional name "wristrocket" given by it's inventor Scott > > > Haltom in 1985. Our thoughts in coming up with the origional name took > > > into account that the shooter "rocks" the ball prior to shooting, and > > > that it explodes the the goal like a rocket. Finally the wrist was > > > necessarily involved and deserved to be included. Hence, the term > > > seemed to accurately define the new invention. > > > > > > Charles > > > > I'd never thought about the rocking the ball back and forth part of the > > shot as applying to the term "rocket" too - clever! > > > > BTW, when rollover shooters buy a brand new wrap and have to peel the > > clear plastic stip off one side of it so they can use it, its sort of > > like a snake shot shedding its skin ;-). > > Maybe we should annotate the "snake" name. As you know Bruce, the NC > players in years past added a innnovation to the rocket, namely > "walking" the ball. It is not only tapping and wiggling the ball in > place, but genuinely walking the ball across the range of the goal. I > would give credit for this innovation to Scott Cook, and Terry > Triplette. Let's call it the "walking snake". The skill required for > this shot should even garner the pull shooters respect, not to mention > RP players. > > Any thoughts, :) > Charles I may not be remembering this correctly, but I think the first person to walk the ball around was Mark Watson (although he doesn't do it any more), and then Scott and Terry copied him. I do like that style, and certainly appreciate it's skill level, since its basically a wrist rocket version of the euro-frontpin style (which is probably how it got started, Mark/Scott/Terry trying to imitate the Rene Pierre style shot maneuvers they saw me do on Tornado). If you remember a post I made on "what shot to shoot" a couple months ago listing the top shot series used, I listed the "walking rollover" as one of the series. BTW, Mark also had another interesting variation to the rollover that I haven't seen anyone else do (at least not as many variations as Mark did) - he'd get the ball in a regular rollover position, then with the handle still on his wrist he'd circle the ball and all kinds of other maneuvers with the man moving around and beside the ball without actually touching the ball until at some point he'd repin the ball and do a quick rollover shot.